Repeating timestamps only appearing at first date, not repeating dates, in agenda view

[brownstyler]

edit if this just isn't implemented yet my bad, I guess I missed that in the documentation

Describe the bug
A date like <2024-02-05 Mon +1w> displays in org-mode agenda view in emacs on every monday after that date. In organice it only appears for me on 2024-02-05 and not for the repeating dates going forward.

To Reproduce
Just make an org file like and put a heading in it like this

* Testing Repeating Timestamps
<2024-02-05 Mon +1w>

Then check agenda view and see if the heading correctly shows up at mondays going into the future

Desktop (please complete the following information):

• OS: [windows, mac, iOS]
• Browser [chrome, safari,firefox]

Hopefully I am missing something really silly and can just delete this issue, but I can't seem to get repeating dates to work at all in organice :(

[munen]

Hi @brownstyler

Thank you for the bug report. You are correct that organice handles repeating timestamps in the agenda different than Emacs Org mode.

Firstly, let me say that organice generally does understand repeating timestamps quite well. There's extensive documentation in the sample file in the chapter "Planning". The TL;DR is that organice does understand the different repeating timestamp options of +, ++ and .+. You can set these in the GUI without needing to remember the syntax, because there's inline documentation in the GUI, too:

However, the difference in organice and Emacs Org mode is: Emacs does repeat the task a whole bunch in the agenda.

Whereas organice shows the task as overdue today and today only.

When completing the task, organice will honor the repeating timestamp options +, ++ and .+ and repeat the task.

Personally, I find this uncluttered way more readable. I do understand, however, that it differs from the standard Org mode agenda way. So, if you want to implement this feature, I would vote to add a feature flag to have both options available: The Emacs Org mode way as a default and the current (uncluttered) behavior as the feature flag. Would you be interested in building this?

[brownstyler]

Thank you for taking the time to make a thorough reply with screenshots!

I can see your point about it being clearer for your purposes, I don't dispute that however I do wonder how you would deal with reoccurring items in your schedule when making an appointment several weeks out? I have a terrible working memory so I need to see all those repeating parts of my schedule not to make a really silly scheduling mistake.

At any rate, for the little my random input is worth I do think it is rather important for a tool built on org mode to at least allow replication of emacs org-mode defaults for things it supports (not that it has to replicate or support all the features, I agree on that!). Especially for a newer user, if in emacs the heading displays on repeating dates and in organice it doesn't, no matter if that is explicitly stated in the documentation somewhere it might seriously confuse a lot of people and push them away from trying organice before they got very far (if repeating timestamps happen to be important to them) even if they would have eventually come to the same logical conclusion as you and ended up turning off the repeated timestamps feature flag. I do also realize that this is an open source project and that it is exceedingly reasonable to design a tool around what makes sense to you the builder, I don't mean to come off in annoying way!

I am not a very experienced programmer, I would like to help but I am not sure I have the skillset depending on how difficult of a project this would be. I am definitely interested though, it is a tool that is immediately useful to me.

Also, thank you for all your hard work, organice has already made an immense difference in my life allowing me to actually interface with org mode in a way that works for me on the go!

[munen]

I do wonder how you would deal with reoccurring items in your schedule when making an appointment several weeks out?

Firstly, let me state that organice development generally follows (or strives to follow) your request to follow Emacs Org mode defaults. I agree that this is the only sane default. We deviate from this only whenever it does not make sense for a mobile application running in a different programming application environment. So, we're 100% on the same side here👍

Then why does organice behave differently for the situation at hand?

1. To be honest, because I did not know that Emacs Org mode behaves differently here.
2. Even though I use repeaters extensively, I do not use them for appointments, but for tasks. And for tasks, I actually do not want to see them repeated in the agenda. Personally, I would see that as clutter, as the future tasks are not yet actionable.

Let me elaborate, I personally use the Getting things done (GTD) methodology to organize my stuff. That's a personal preference and very specific. In GTD, you have one spot for tasks, and another for your calendar. To me, that is an important distinction. Without going into too much detail, here's some arguments:

• Some people like adding their tasks to the calendar. This seems to make sense, because many tasks have a timeline. However, as soon as the 'correct' time is done, but the task is not, it becomes a mess, because many tasks have to be moved in the calendar. Therefore, no tasks should ever be in the calendar (according to GTD).
• Therefore the calendar only contains appointments. And those might be recurring. Since I'm a small business owner, I need to use a calendar that other people can see and interact with. Unfortunately, only a minority of these people are Emacs or organice users. Hence, I'm personally using Google Calendar (the only Google tool I'm still using).

To bridge tasks and the calendar, I automatically import the Org mode agenda into my calendar. Here's a blog post I've written on this topic: https://200ok.ch/posts/2022-02-13_integrating_org_mode_agenda_into_other_calendar_apps.html

Ok, having said all of this, I want to emphasize, again, that this is my personal workflow and preference. I'm just jotting it down, because you specifically asked "how I would deal with recurring items"(;

In a different context, I would also like to use just Emacs and organice as a calendar, as well. Then, I might very well have realized that there's a lack of feature parity to Emacs Org mode.

Coming back on how to handle this situation, I'm happy to let you give your best shot in implementing the behaviour as previously described: The Emacs Org mode way as a default and the current (uncluttered) behavior as the feature flag. I'm happy to help out with questions, testing and documentation.

[brownstyler]

Ok, having said all of this, I want to emphasize, again, that this is my personal workflow and preference. I'm just jotting it down, because you specifically asked "how I would deal with recurring items (;

Honestly, I really appreciate the fact that you have taken the time repeatedly to write meaningful responses to my questions even though I am just a rando providing some critique of a volunteer project you have no obligation to work on :P It speaks to your commitment to genuinely make the world a little bit better place with software not just create a hobby project that is useful just for you.

Some people like adding their tasks to the calendar. This seems to make sense, because many tasks have a timeline. However, as soon as the 'correct' time is done, but the task is not, it becomes a mess, because many tasks have to be moved in the calendar. Therefore, no tasks should ever be in the calendar (according to GTD).

I almost never use SCHEDULED or DEADLINE timestamps, I just place normal timestamps (i.e. <2024-02-21 Wed> ) and being able to make them repeat is immediately useful for me. I can absolutely see the logic to what you are saying, I just have pretty significant ADHD and am disorganized and my organizational systems need to be maximally simple and require absolute minimum "admin" work to maintain or I will simply just stop using them when I get sufficiently stressed out. In other words, yeah a separate calendar system definitely makes more sense, trying to use org mode/organice as a total organization and GTD system is perhaps not wise, but it is my best option currently. For someone with a brain like mine, org mode is a life saver because of its paradoxical ability to reflect extremely complex systems of information while being immediately simple and direct to begin using (including importantly not making you feel bad for using an absurdly powerful tool like a glorified post-it note). Org mode is the only software I have ever used that rivals the pen and paper in that respect.

Sorry to ramble, I just wanted to provide context on how I approach org mode and organice!

[zmberber]

I personally would also prefer it if it were consistent with the way emacs displays it. If this gets implemented, then the way it is now should be an option, as has been said.

Maybe somebody (like me) can do a pull request.

[munen]

@zmberber Thank you for getting involved in this issue 🙏 Are you interested in picking the task up? I'd be happy to support with testing, docs and reviewing.

[zmberber]

i am afraid at the moment i don't have time to get into it.

i am currently also not using organice (due to CORS related problems).

sorry. maybe some day if somebody bugs me some more in the future :)

[munen]

Thanks for getting back to me on this super fast 🚀

Let's leave this issue open, then, in case somebody wants to pick it up.

i am currently also not using organice (due to CORS related problems).

Sorry to hear about that. WebDAV can be really hard to use from a web app. Having said so, we do have some documentation specifically regarding CORS. Maybe it'll be of help: https://organice.200ok.ch/documentation.html#webdav_cors