Use HomeAssistant sensors inside of RasperryMatic / CCU3

[simllll]

Hello everyone,
I've successfully set up the RaspberryMatic AddOn inside of Home Assistant. I also got the RFUSB stick working and paired the first devices. So far, so good.

But now I've hit the first problem. After installing the HmIP-FALMOT-C12 (floor heating actor), I discovered that I can't operate it without a temperature sensor. While I can briefly open the actuators, they immediately revert due to some internal routines (couldn't find out what was triggering it) and close again. (They work fine and I even can overwrite them as soon as I add a thermostat to the heating group). However, I have several temperature sensors in my apartment (e.g., from the air conditioning units or various Zigbee sensors), and I was thinking about the following scenario:

• Create a virtual thermostat in the CCU3 / RaspberryMatic (HM-IP).
• Set up a Home Assistant automation that updates the sensor whenever it changes.
• Use the "virtual device" inside of CCU3 like a real one and combine it with the relevant heating groups.

Specifically, I'd like to apply this for the opening sensors, while for temperature, I'll likely end up installing Homematic thermostats anyway.

TL;DR: How could I create a "fake" / virtual device in RaspberryMatic that I can feed with real data via Home Assistant automations, so that I can use my existing devices inside RasperryMatic?

I've already tried Homematic Virtual Interface and the CuX-Daemon, but without success. With the HVI, I can only use plugins, but I'm unable to create a custom/virtual device. The CuX Daemon sounded promising, but unfortunately, there are no HM-IP devices. I can only create "HM" devices, which I can't combine with my HM-IP devices, e.g., in groups.

Thanks for any input! 💯

Simon

// This is the Englisch version, German version is here: #2926

[jens-maus]

But now I've hit the first problem. After installing the HmIP-FALMOT-C12 (floor heating actor), I discovered that I can't operate it without a temperature sensor. While I can briefly open the actuators, they immediately revert due to some internal routines (couldn't find out what was triggering it) and close again. (They work fine and I even can overwrite them as soon as I add a thermostat to the heating group). However, I have several temperature sensors in my apartment (e.g., from the air conditioning units or various Zigbee sensors), and I was thinking about the following scenario:

• Create a virtual thermostat in the CCU3 / RaspberryMatic (HM-IP).
• Set up a Home Assistant automation that updates the sensor whenever it changes.
• Use the "virtual device" inside of CCU3 like a real one and combine it with the relevant heating groups.

Specifically, I'd like to apply this for the opening sensors, while for temperature, I'll likely end up installing Homematic thermostats anyway.

Unfortunately, non of your ideas/suggestions will work. The HmIP-FALMOT and all other Homematic Floor actuators require a coupled wall thermostat. There is no possibility to create a virtual thermostat, automation or anything like that to manually "drive" these type of floor heating actuators. They can only operate with a coupled wall thermostat from HomematicIP because they can only perform their internal and automated operations together with their wall thermostats. Furthermore, there is no possibility to explicitly open or close one channel / motor of these floor actuators because all this is done solely via internal logic between the floor actuator and the wall thermostat. All you can do is to set a certain target temperature at the wall thermostat and then the thermostat and the floor actor will perform their internal logic until this temperature is reached.

[simllll]

they still communicate to eachother via their internal 868MHz link (Direktverknüpfung). That's in fact the whole speciality / feature behind homematicIP

Thanks, I saw that already while looking into the "Routing"-Option. And reading about "Advanced Routing". That also sounded like it can talk to the "base" as fallback if the other device is not directly reachable (e.g. HM-Ip Wireless vs Wired), and there I thought it could be possible to bring in a "virtual device".

[simllll]

One more thign regarding floor actuuactors requiring a thermostat, ...

opened another thread for this topic over here danielperna84/hahomematic#1858

[MichaelN0815]

Hast Du echt angenommen ein Heizkreis Verteiler kann ohne einen Input seine Arbeit verrichten?

[simllll]

Hast Du echt angenommen ein Heizkreis Verteiler kann ohne einen Input seine Arbeit verrichten?

Nein, aber ich hab angenommen ich kann vorhanden Inputs re-usen. So wie ungefähr überall anders ;-) Ich brauch ja nicht 5 Temperaturmessgeräte in einem Raum.

[jens-maus]

Hast Du echt angenommen ein Heizkreis Verteiler kann ohne einen Input seine Arbeit verrichten?

Nein, aber ich hab angenommen ich kann vorhanden Inputs re-usen. So wie ungefähr überall anders ;-) Ich brauch ja nicht 5 Temperaturmessgeräte in einem Raum.

Dann nutz nur ein HmIP-WTH als dein Hauptthermostat in dem jeweiligen Raum und entferne den den du da jetzt vermeintlich bereits hast. Anders wird es nicht gehen, egal wie oft du es probierst oder versuchst anders zu lösen. Oder ersetze den HmIP-FALMOT eben gegen etwas anderes wenn diese Limitation dir zu einschneidend ist.

[simllll]

Ui I got close, but still failed 👎

Looking into https://github.com/mdzio/ccu-jack I even managed to create a virtual HmIP device:

The last three are virtual thermostats. I can update the values through MQTT or direclty via HA, that would be perfect.. BUT, I still not able to use this thermostat in a heating group :( . Guess this is the limitation @jens-maus was talking about, or am I missing something else here?

[jens-maus]

Guess this is the limitation @jens-maus was talking about, or am I missing something else here?

As I told you: There is NO possibility to use a software-based HmIP wall thermostat replacement (also not via CCU-Jack) to couple it to a HmIP-FALMOT or other HmIP floor actuator. The FALMOT requires a HmIP thermostat (HmIP-WTH) in hardware to work correctly. Without that thermostat this floor heating actuator is not able to get the temperature information and thus will not work. And it also does not have any other channel to get or assign it the required temperature information. So either get a HmIP wall thermostats (HmIP-WTH) and use that as your main thermostat for the desired rooms and then use that from HA or replace the HmIP-FALMOT with something completely different. No other options exist.

[simllll]

Thanks, so far I see the current limitations. As I still like to play around with it, why do you think emulating a hardware thermostat is not feasible? Virtualization is done with so many things today, I just can't figure out why it should not be doable with a thermostat based on the "ipv6" protocol (right, I couldn't find any documentation about the homematic ip protocol yet, but I guess there are ways to find that out too?)

[jens-maus]

As I still like to play around with it, why do you think emulating a hardware thermostat is not feasible? Virtualization is done with so many things today, I just can't figure out why it should not be doable with a thermostat based on the "ipv6" protocol (right, I couldn't find any documentation about the homematic ip protocol yet, but I guess there are ways to find that out too?)

Well, the counter question would be: Why do you ask questions when you cannot accept a definite answer from someone with deeper technical knowledge about something you obviously have just started to look at? So I can only repeat myself: What you want is NOT possible without eQ3 changing the device firmware of the HmIP-FALMOT and allowing to simply provide the necessary temperature data in a different manner. And the IP term in "HomematicIP" does not mean anything even if you think this is a standard "ipv6" protocol. In fact, the IP in the HomematicIP naming is just a marketing term even thought they are internally using something like IPv6 within their RF communication between there devices. However, as said: This does not mean you can send any command or perform any IP based communication to these devices. So please make yourself more familiar if you feel thus must be possible to some extend. And I wouldn't be surprised if you then soon identify yourself that what you actually want (couple a thermostat from a different vendor or use a software-based thermostat) is simply not possible.

[simllll]

Hi @jens-maus , sorry if it sounded like an offense against you, this was not my intention at all. It's just that I have experienced in the last 2-3 years the whole world of home assistant and other open solutions, and wasn't expecting that homematic is limited/closed in so many ways. My idea, due to the open hardware for homematic that is available and the rasperrymatic project, was that homematic is open to customization and co too. Which is unfortunately not the case. It's more the opposite, you can do what they want you to do, but any special case is not possible at all. (Like it is in the open source and home assistant world ;-)).
Anyways, I could solve my issues. Returned some homematic hardware and replaced it with zigbee and other open protocols. I have now a combination of homematic for my floor heating and a zigbee controller for my ceiling cooling system. With some "hacks" / additional automations I was able to bring homematic to the level of customization I needed for this setup. So in the end, fine enough for me.

Thanks for your help and support. All the best for the homematic future, hopefully they become more open (source) in the end too ;-)